Thursday, March 19, 2009

Backsliding Tim Wirth Calls the Bible a Joke!!

I am deeply saddened to report how a recent hero of mine has fallen into deception. I only hope I can be like Nathan to the mighty King David and help Tim Wirth repent and believe ALL of the Bible again.

Who is Tim Wirth? Or should I say who was Tim Wirth before he had backslidden into apostasy? Tim Wirth was the champion for the Bible in the Church of the Nazarene as he fought against the heresy of the emergent church in our denomination. He is the author of many blogs and an upcoming DVD on the topic, including. “Psalm 11:3”, “Concerned Nazarenes”, and “The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry”. But now he has put all that work in danger as Tim Wirth has lost true discernment that can only come from the Bible and the Bible ALONE. I do not think his ministry can be trusted until Tim repents and puts his faith back in the Bible.

I first became aware of how Tim has become deceived when he commented on my last post, “Nina Gunter shows us what’s wrong”. He commented on the biblical perspective I outlined concerning Nina Gunter and women in ministry, saying, “This all sounds like a spoof to me.”

Another word for “spoof” is “joke” or “mock”. Tim Wirth read the words of scripture I posted on my blog and called them a joke. Everything I said I backed up with scripture, everything. Yet Tim Wirth did not give any scriptural arguments for his belief that it is a joke that the Bible commands that women should not preach and lead men.

Tim, I say this in love, but you need to read Galatians 6:7-8

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”

Now, before I am criticized for not following Biblical command in Matt 18, I do want to say that I followed these steps before I brought this sad sin of apostasy to the light of this public forum. I wrote Tim in an email saying:


I regret that you think what the Bible says is a spoof. If my reading of scripture is in error, please show me with scripture. I am hurt that you called my blog a joke when I am trying to stand up for what the Bible says. So, as the Bible teaches me, I have decided to put Matthew 18:15 in practice. "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.”

I hope you will continue in your work to defend the Bible- the whole Bible and call everyone who does the same your brother and friend.

I will not post all of Tim’s response for the sake of his privacy, but I will share two things that he said to me. First was that “the church of the Nazarene has had ordained females for sometime now.” I am not sure why “how long” they have not followed the Bible really matters. Is there a statute of limitations on following scripture? If we disobey it long enough does that get us off the hook? Of course Tim Wirth gave no scriptural references for why he thinks the length of time the church of Nazarene has followed this unbiblical practice is relevant.

Second, Tim accused me of operating without accountability. Tim writes, “Who are you, what church do you come from...I have a real church and a real pastor I am accountable to who knows what I do.” I find this comment odd for a Christian who holds the Bible as the one True authority in our lives. Is Tim Wirth operating under the authority of his church and his Pastor, or is he putting himself under the authority of the Bible? Men are easily deceived, that is while we can only trust what the inerrant, infallible, unquestionable Bible has to say.

Tim did not provide any scripture for why he thinks his Pastor and Church can give him accountability and authority that trumps the Word of God. The Bible is the final Authority on everything. Tim Wirth’s basing his authority that comes from clergy and churches sounds like he is on the slippery slope that leads us to back to Rome. Ironically this was a topic of one of Tim’s posts (HERE) where he admits that he has Roman Catholic roots. It is sad to see him speak truth in that post when he says “So at first we need to establish who’s word we believe? Gods Word or the word of man?” But now he seems to revert back to his former Catholic thinking that finds authority in the human beings in his church and the idolatry of his Pastor rather than in the Word of God alone.

Finally Tim Wirth did not respond to my request to meet with him and another person, as required by scripture in Mathew 18. So I now have no other choice but to bring this to the public as commanded by the inerrant Bible. My actions are absolutely right in this because I am following the Bible which is absolutely right.

Tim Wirth does not believe all the Bible is the inerrant Authoritive Word of God. He seems to think he can pick and choose the verses he likes to follow and those he does not. I am not sure if Tim has been brained washed by the demonic liberal feminist media, but Tim Wirth thinks he can reject teaching found in Timothy 2:12-14, Corinthians 14:33-37, and Titus 2:3-5. Everything I said comes from these verses. I did not share my opinion, but God’s opinion according to the Bible. Yet Tim Wirth seems to think these verses are a joke.

I am praying for you Tim. Please repent so God can bless you as you fight the heresy of the emergent church. But you can’t fight heresy while being a heretic and not believing EVERY WORD in the BIBLE as God breathed. I am praying for you.

For those who think that I am making a big deal out of nothing, think again. The Bible says a little leaven ruins the whole lump of dough. What good is it for Tim Wirth to drive out the evil emergent church if he leaves the leaven of the sin of not trusting ALL of the Bible as the inerrant Word of God behind? The Devil is known for putting a little bit of truth in every lie. So we have to be very careful now with Tim Wirth’s teaching because even where he may speak some truth, until he repents and believes in the Bible alone, he has put himself under the authority of the Devil; and there could be lies written in-between the lines. This is very very dangerous. Please repent Tim, confess your sin of rejecting the Word of God and be restored.

Please, if anyone leaves any comments please give Bible references to back up your argument.


  1. This is powerful stuff. I'd like to refer you to my favorite inerrant Scripture for refuting apostates. It's brought me much comfort when the darkness is pressing in. Isaiah 3:21. I'd type it here, but it's only inerrant if you read it in an inerrant bible.

  2. Perhaps Tim is struggling because he hasn't followed God's Biblical formula for happiness: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones" (Psalm 137:9).

    I wanted to quote the inerrant Almighty King James Bible first, but I must say, I do find Eugene Peterson's rendering of this verse compelling as well, even if it's not authoritative: "Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!"

    *Sigh* If people would only obey God and the Bible He wrote for us!

  3. How odd that Tim's fallen condition would remind you of King David's, because that is exactly the word that God gave to me. The text that God impressed upon my heart, and told me to make known to the world, is 1 Samuel 18:27. I realized that I am prooftexting here, so it doesnt have to make complete sense, or even, any sense. It only has to make sense to me and everyone else has to accept it or find themselves on the way to perdition. This verse clearly outlines the only path for Wirth to find himself in God's favor again. I know that Tim is Premillinial Dispensationalist, so the modern day equivalent of the Philistines are the Palestinians. I think it would be appropriate to deliver his booty to John Hagee at his next CUFI wait...these are Nazarenes. He's going to need to deliver them to Tim LaHaye or Hal Lindsey.

  4. I am stunned and shocked at the narrow-mindedness on this blog by its author. You are obviously a very angry person (I think that is a sin) and have an inability to handle another persons views unless they agree with your very authoritive version (I think God has much to say about unity and diversity - Trinitarian). This blog reminds me of those culturally obsessed Pharissees and power hungry Saducees (I think Jesus had problems with them - they thought they had all the answers and spoke on behalf of God). They got it wrong as well, insisted they were right, didn't know what Grace was and eventually died out (obviously a couple are left though!!).

  5. You should know that Tim Wirth has referenced you on his nazarenepsalm113 site. He makes it sound like you emailed him to repent. I'm sure that's not what happened. His douchebaggery knows no bounds.

  6. "And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs." - Ezekiel 17:6

    This verse is from a random Bible verse generator. I think it shows very clearly that Tim has a low stature in the lord. He is a vine that chokes life. He is shooting sprigs. Thus says the word of the Lord.

  7. "Fifty loops shalt thou make in the one curtain, and fifty loops shalt thou make in the edge of the curtain that is in the second coupling; the loops shall be opposite one to another." - Exodus 26:5

    An additional verse that I believe applies to Avey. The lord is spaking that you are loopy. Thus says the lord.

  8. I think we have come into a dangerous place within our church, a place where people would rather argue like children on the internet, and parody each other, than to actually engage in real theological discussion. I'm not condemning the author of this websites views, or the other... just the silliness of the posts on both sides. This "discussion" has become a ridiculous joke. I hope we can come to a point where we can actually dialogue about these topics instead of mocking one another. We all fall short... but it seems as if we are falling shorter and shorter. Please, I beg of you, if you are truly a disciple of Christ let us bear in mind his actions, and let us likewise act, not in spite and malice, but in love and wisdom.

  9. Honestly I would sleep fine if both you and Tim stopped blogging entirely. I'm glad that you can express your opinions but Im not sure that either one of you is really helping the Church move toward any truly worth while dialog. I think perhaps both of you should take some classes...

  10. I also sent a concerned email to Tim recently, asking for clarification on some issues he raised on his website. What I received was no less than a hateful personal attack from Tim. I have no desire to start an argument, and I hate to see the divisiveness Tim has fostered. May God help us all spread his peace and love.

  11. I want to comment reg. “inerrant Bible”


    First some important information: A analysis (found here: (that is the only legitimate Netzarim)) of all extant source documents and archaeology using a rational and logical methodology analyzing the “gospel of Matthew” proves that the historical Ribi Yehosuha ha-Mashiakh (the Messiah) from Nazareth and his talmidim (apprentice-students), called the Netzarim, taught and lived Torah all of their lives; and that Netzarim and Christianity were always antithetical.

    Regarding “NT”:

    “Even according to the most authoritative Christian scholars, e.g., The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, acknowledges:

    "A study of 150 Greek MSS of the Gospel of Luke has revealed more than 30,000 different readings… It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the NT in which the MS tradition is wholly uniform… But there are many thousands which have a definite effect upon the meaning of the text. It is true that not one of these variant readings affects the substance of Christian dogma" ("Text, NT," 2nd edition (Abingdon, 1962).

    Of course Christians redacting the Jewish texts made Christian redactions to make the Jewish texts compatible with "the substance of Christian dogma." Duh.” [Quote from the previous mentioned Netzarim-website.]

    Clearly the “NT” is not inerrant.

    The Nәtzâr•im′ never changed their mind about it, maintaining that only the Jewish Ta•na"kh′ is Scripture and only their own TheNәtzâr•im′ Hebrew Ma•tit•yâh′u (NHM) was a legitimate account of the life and teachings of Rib′i Yәho•shu′a.

    The Nәtzâr•im′ haven't changed from this position, and won't change from this position.

    Anders Branderud

  12. The problem with many of these modern groups who come out in condemnation of "false doctrines" and "wolves in sheeps clothing" is the fact they end up being the "Pot calling the kettle Black"! The departure from truth and real holiness began in the Nazarene Church (and many other "Holiness" denominations) way before Rick Warren (and other such devils) were sucking their thumbs! These movements have abandoned their standards concerning dress and attire, divorce and remarriage, worldly music, amuzements, women in ministry, ect, ect, ect...! Why are folks all the sudden shaken by this "emergent church" heresy when the entire denomination has been on a slippery slope downhill for over 50-60 years along with many other such denominations. Our holiness denominations were RIPE for DECEPTION! The frog has been slowly cookin' for several decades. Many folks jumped from the pot back in the mid 50s and 60s when the church decided to make more modern adjustments for the unisex trends and emerging cultural changes of the time. Instead of the church addressing and combating the rising tide of worldliness, they simply acquiesced to the pressures of day and moderated their standard to accommodate the change. Holiness denominations have always found it difficult or impossible to keep the lines drawn in the sand. These lines have shifted countless times and have now been completely discarded all together. Every man now does that which is right in his own eyes! The new emergent church theme fits in nicely with that philosophy! You're no longer allowed to draw lines in the sand because you are no longer allowed to obey 1 Cor. 2:15!

  13. "Every man now does that which is right in his own eyes!"
    This has always been the case, such is yours..It is self evident from that which you have written.

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