Backsliding Tim Wirth Calls the Bible a Joke!!

I am deeply saddened to report how a recent hero of mine has fallen into deception. I only hope I can be like Nathan to the mighty King David and help Tim Wirth repent and believe ALL of the Bible again.

Who is Tim Wirth? Or should I say who was Tim Wirth before he had backslidden into apostasy? Tim Wirth was the champion for the Bible in the Church of the Nazarene as he fought against the heresy of the emergent church in our denomination. He is the author of many blogs and an upcoming DVD on the topic, including. “Psalm 11:3”, “Concerned Nazarenes”, and “The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry”. But now he has put all that work in danger as Tim Wirth has lost true discernment that can only come from the Bible and the Bible ALONE. I do not think his ministry can be trusted until Tim repents and puts his faith back in the Bible.

I first became aware of how Tim has become deceived when he commented on my last post, “Nina Gunter shows us what’s wrong”. He commented on the biblical perspective I outlined concerning Nina Gunter and women in ministry, saying, “This all sounds like a spoof to me.”

Another word for “spoof” is “joke” or “mock”. Tim Wirth read the words of scripture I posted on my blog and called them a joke. Everything I said I backed up with scripture, everything. Yet Tim Wirth did not give any scriptural arguments for his belief that it is a joke that the Bible commands that women should not preach and lead men.

Tim, I say this in love, but you need to read Galatians 6:7-8

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”

Now, before I am criticized for not following Biblical command in Matt 18, I do want to say that I followed these steps before I brought this sad sin of apostasy to the light of this public forum. I wrote Tim in an email saying:

Tim,

I regret that you think what the Bible says is a spoof. If my reading of scripture is in error, please show me with scripture. I am hurt that you called my blog a joke when I am trying to stand up for what the Bible says. So, as the Bible teaches me, I have decided to put Matthew 18:15 in practice. "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.”

I hope you will continue in your work to defend the Bible- the whole Bible and call everyone who does the same your brother and friend.

I will not post all of Tim’s response for the sake of his privacy, but I will share two things that he said to me. First was that “the church of the Nazarene has had ordained females for sometime now.” I am not sure why “how long” they have not followed the Bible really matters. Is there a statute of limitations on following scripture? If we disobey it long enough does that get us off the hook? Of course Tim Wirth gave no scriptural references for why he thinks the length of time the church of Nazarene has followed this unbiblical practice is relevant.

Second, Tim accused me of operating without accountability. Tim writes, “Who are you, what church do you come from...I have a real church and a real pastor I am accountable to who knows what I do.” I find this comment odd for a Christian who holds the Bible as the one True authority in our lives. Is Tim Wirth operating under the authority of his church and his Pastor, or is he putting himself under the authority of the Bible? Men are easily deceived, that is while we can only trust what the inerrant, infallible, unquestionable Bible has to say.

Tim did not provide any scripture for why he thinks his Pastor and Church can give him accountability and authority that trumps the Word of God. The Bible is the final Authority on everything. Tim Wirth’s basing his authority that comes from clergy and churches sounds like he is on the slippery slope that leads us to back to Rome. Ironically this was a topic of one of Tim’s posts (HERE) where he admits that he has Roman Catholic roots. It is sad to see him speak truth in that post when he says “So at first we need to establish who’s word we believe? Gods Word or the word of man?” But now he seems to revert back to his former Catholic thinking that finds authority in the human beings in his church and the idolatry of his Pastor rather than in the Word of God alone.

Finally Tim Wirth did not respond to my request to meet with him and another person, as required by scripture in Mathew 18. So I now have no other choice but to bring this to the public as commanded by the inerrant Bible. My actions are absolutely right in this because I am following the Bible which is absolutely right.

Tim Wirth does not believe all the Bible is the inerrant Authoritive Word of God. He seems to think he can pick and choose the verses he likes to follow and those he does not. I am not sure if Tim has been brained washed by the demonic liberal feminist media, but Tim Wirth thinks he can reject teaching found in Timothy 2:12-14, Corinthians 14:33-37, and Titus 2:3-5. Everything I said comes from these verses. I did not share my opinion, but God’s opinion according to the Bible. Yet Tim Wirth seems to think these verses are a joke.

I am praying for you Tim. Please repent so God can bless you as you fight the heresy of the emergent church. But you can’t fight heresy while being a heretic and not believing EVERY WORD in the BIBLE as God breathed. I am praying for you.

For those who think that I am making a big deal out of nothing, think again. The Bible says a little leaven ruins the whole lump of dough. What good is it for Tim Wirth to drive out the evil emergent church if he leaves the leaven of the sin of not trusting ALL of the Bible as the inerrant Word of God behind? The Devil is known for putting a little bit of truth in every lie. So we have to be very careful now with Tim Wirth’s teaching because even where he may speak some truth, until he repents and believes in the Bible alone, he has put himself under the authority of the Devil; and there could be lies written in-between the lines. This is very very dangerous. Please repent Tim, confess your sin of rejecting the Word of God and be restored.

Please, if anyone leaves any comments please give Bible references to back up your argument.

Nina Gunter shows us what’s wrong

I want so much to jump for joy by this video as I hear a Nazarene General Superintendent rightly condemn the emergent church as one of the greatest concerns of our time. The emergent church does not bow down to the Almighty Bible and do what it says and so they rebel against the words of God. But, I am also saddened by this video because while Nina condemns the emergent church on one hand, on the other hand she does not have male genitalia.

I am not being crude here, it is just a fact, and a fact that determines that she is not a man. Do not misunderstand me, I love women. My mother was a woman and society would not succeed unless they had our children and were helpers around the home. Thank God for women. But God instructs us in the Bible that he wrote, that men and women have different roles, and to not follow the traditional roles of men and women in society is an abomination.

One of those important Biblical instructions we have is that women should not preach or lead men. So Nina Gunter's preaching is already unbiblical no matter what she might say.

There are a variety of arguments and demonic teaching from the emergent church and their liberal parents that promotes so called "equality" and support things like women in ministry. Yet before we look at what God's Word says about this important issue, you must decide whether or not you will accept the very words of Scripture as the inspired and inerrant words of God. Many who espouse a progressive view of women in ministry hold a low view of Scripture, viewing the Biblical text as the ideas, philosophies and musings of men (such as the Apostle Paul) rather than the very words of God himself.

If you deceive yourself by thinking that scripture can only be applied to so called historical "context" and say that we have different cultural considerations in the 21st century than you deny the Bible; for it says that God is unchanging. (Malachi 3:6) However, if you accept the Bible as inerrant, authoritative and "God-breathed," then he will know that all Scripture is profitable for doctrine and he will refrain from discarding those portions you do not believe to be "relevant" to your own situation. "Context" is irrelevant to an unchanging God, therefore all scripture applies to every context. So let us look at what the timeless Bible has to say about women teaching men.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 (New King James Version)

And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

So there you go. God does not permit Nina Gunter to have authority over any men, in fact she should be SILENT. Paul goes on to say in 1st Corinthians 14:33-37:

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

So then, if we take the Almighty Bible seriously Nina should not be allowed to talk in church. If she has a question she should ask her husband when she gets home. The Bible clearly teaches that as a woman it is easier for her to be deceived. God did not make a woman brain the same as a man's, as the scripture reminds us when it says, "Adam was not deceived, but it was the woman who was deceived." Nina, as a woman, simply does not have the brain power to teach men. Maybe that is why she listed "Calvinism" and "Reformed theology" as two different things in her sermon.

I am not upset with her for her mistake, those things can be hard for a woman to understand. That is why one of the five men that serve as General Superintendents in the Church of the Nazarene should tell her to be quiet. Dr. Cunningham, Dr. Diehl, Dr. Porter, Dr. Warrick should all take the lead in taking back the proper male leadership of the Chrurch of the Nazarene. I don't have much hope for Dr. Middendorf as he and his son Jon have already emasculated themselves my selling their souls to the demonic teaching of the emergent church. (Click HERE for more information on that from Tim Wirth.)

So what does the Almighty Bible say Nina Gunter should be doing?

Titus 2:3-5 (New King James Version)

the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things— that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

There you have it. Nina, as an older woman, should only be teaching younger women. She should help them learn to obey their husbands and to be homemakers. The Bible clearly says that for a woman to do anything else is to "blaspheme the Word of God".

So as I look at the Nazarene denomination as it allows unbiblical teaching of the emergent church to creep into its doors, I can't help but to wonder if the church wasn't apostate long before it even got off the ground. The Church of the Nazarene has has ordained women to the ministry since its founding in 1908 and supports the right of women to use their so called "God-given spiritual gifts" within the church.

A while ago a petition went around that condemned the unbiblical practices of the emergent church and it was sent to the General Superintendents in the Church of the Nazarene. I fear though that such a document may have reached Nina Gunter as the only General Superintendent that has publicly said anything against the emergent church. I worry first of all that as a woman she will not know what to do with it, and secondly that as a woman that has usurped the God given power of men that she will not pass it along and ask her male colleagues what to do with it.

I suggest that we start a new petition. This one will not stop at the unbiblical practices of the emergent church, but demand that the Church of the Nazarene will submit itself to the Bible in every way. For starters they will put the Bible back in the Nazarene logo (or adopt my new improved logo) and secondly they will forbid women from teaching in the Church as the Almighty Bible commands us.

If you believe in the Bible than you will be with me on this!!! I am sure my good friends and fellow watchmen Tim Wirth and Manny Silva are behind me. I know that they are not the only ones, they are just the only ones I know with good biblical blogs. So lets get a petition rolling and take back the Nazarene Church for the Bible!!

Charles F. Dobson